[BoolaBoola]

I have a Y and in “Production begins” status on my 45e. My wife drives the Y and we’re planning on keeping both. I know many BEV owners would not go back to an ICE car but I like having different vehicles in the garage so that is one reason I didn’t buy another Y. Ride quality on the MYP with 21” wheels is much worse than on the 19” or even 20” options to put that in context with the above post. Also, some have done aftermarket modifications for as little as $2-3K to add air suspension. Even the LR MY is wicked fast and it’s nice to have OTA updates that make your car better year(s) down the road than when new. QC is as average (poor?) as they say and my car needed $3000 of paint correction and a hood repaint locally before delivery and that was ordered by the dealer after it left the factory and before I saw the car. In 18 months of ownership the only maintenance needed has been a tire rotation and I’m about to change the cabin air filters. The 45e has a whole different level of luxury and build quality and I took all the tech options now that I have been spoiled by the MY. I am looking forward the wireless CP and HUD unavailable on the MY. (OTOH, the only sound system on the MY is excellent and from what I’ve read blows away the HK which wasn’t even available now.) My commute is so short that I can use the 45e nearly always in EV mode if I choose and can use my L2 Tesla HPWC to charge it with a <$200 adapter. The on board charger on the 45e is pathetically slow at literally 1/10 the speed of the MY. My biggest concern for the 45e is I have low annual mileage but keep my cars a long time. This is my first German vehicle and I hope I don’t regret ridiculous maintenance costs.

[LAKERS333]

Originally Posted by frenzy757

Ill chime in here - hope it helps.

I had a Model Y performance for about 3 months as our family car. We have one dog and an infant.

For the Model Y:
- Rear legroom is larger in the model y
- All electric is nice around town - range was fine for our needs locally
- IF you need to charge, the Tesla Superchargers are much better than the alternative
- It is fast - very fast
- Low maintenance effort
- Smaller footprint so it fit in the garage a little easier
- I had FSD, and I think the lane tracing was a tad bit better than BMW, but not game changingly better
- App is much better right now (I use Android, and the BMW Android app has issues)

BUT we sold it in 3 months, got the x5e and couldn't be happier. Here is why.
For the X5e
- Ride comfort is game changing. The model y performance is one of the worst riding cars I have ridden in. In my sports cars that is fine, but not as my family car. The model y was more uncomfortable than my Supra, my 2008 4 runner, e46 M3. Yes it was that bad for me and my wife.
- The vegan leather gave my wife headaches and nausea (the smell)
- Our fault (we got white) and my dog's small black hairs got all over and my OCD kicked in. Not Tesla's fault but still just saying.
- FSD isn't worth it. BMW's lane keep does the job and is enough for me. Tesla is no where near 'Full self driving' and won't be for a while. You won't be texting while driving safely anytime soon.
- Build quality sucked. Car was in the shop right away and still had issues here and there
- While leg room was better inthe Y, the shoulder room (width) of the X5 is better. The X5 has acceptable leg room and the width makes it easier for me to fit parents in the back + infant seat. Model Y was tight.
- Better ground clearence on the X5. The Y (Performance) was too low for me for the family car.
- Normal tires in the X5 - I hated the staggered setup on the Y perf. The wheels were too big and easily rashed. I knicked it not on a curb, but on a lip in the road from construction. I had plans to get new wheels and suspension, but didn't feel like doing that for the Y.
- Model Y range sucked on the highway. It is "rated" at 300ish. At highway speeds it is more like 220.
- I go to tahoe often, no way that would work in the Y - sorry if you think it is fine to spend time sitting at chargers often, but I would rather not.
- X5e is enough for my daily commute range wise. And I can take it on road trips
- Android Auto and Carplay are still better for me than Tesla's sytem. I like the maps interface better, and the HUD.
- Ventillated seats + massage in the x5 is really nice. X5 just feels luxurious. Tesla is more akin to a nice appliance.
- No 360 cam on the Y (rumored for a while). Definitely helps when needed.
- No blind spot on the mirrors. Nice to have. I still check manually, but it is nice to also have some extra help.

Hope that helps. Happy to answer questions. It is crazy how bad the Y's ride is compared to the S and X, which I know are much more expensive, but those cars are much nicer to be in and ride in.

Awesome, thanks for the details, when I did drive the MY, I felt the harshness and weird feeling suspension immediately and then came the regenerative braking. I'm not sure if my neighbor had adjusted her settings to be even higher (I hear they took the regenerative adjustment setting away for 2021) her model still had the settings.

Yes but overall it seems like a whole different feel for an electric car and I didn't not like it much, considering it is roughly about 10k more (63k vs 74k) for a well equipped 45e.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by frenzy757

Ill chime in here - hope it helps.

I had a Model Y performance for about 3 months as our family car. We have one dog and an infant.

For the Model Y:
- Rear legroom is larger in the model y
- All electric is nice around town - range was fine for our needs locally
- IF you need to charge, the Tesla Superchargers are much better than the alternative
- It is fast - very fast
- Low maintenance effort
- Smaller footprint so it fit in the garage a little easier
- I had FSD, and I think the lane tracing was a tad bit better than BMW, but not game changingly better
- App is much better right now (I use Android, and the BMW Android app has issues)

BUT we sold it in 3 months, got the x5e and couldn't be happier. Here is why.
For the X5e
- Ride comfort is game changing. The model y performance is one of the worst riding cars I have ridden in. In my sports cars that is fine, but not as my family car. The model y was more uncomfortable than my Supra, my 2008 4 runner, e46 M3. Yes it was that bad for me and my wife.
- The vegan leather gave my wife headaches and nausea (the smell)
- Our fault (we got white) and my dog's small black hairs got all over and my OCD kicked in. Not Tesla's fault but still just saying.
- FSD isn't worth it. BMW's lane keep does the job and is enough for me. Tesla is no where near 'Full self driving' and won't be for a while. You won't be texting while driving safely anytime soon.
- Build quality sucked. Car was in the shop right away and still had issues here and there
- While leg room was better inthe Y, the shoulder room (width) of the X5 is better. The X5 has acceptable leg room and the width makes it easier for me to fit parents in the back + infant seat. Model Y was tight.
- Better ground clearence on the X5. The Y (Performance) was too low for me for the family car.
- Normal tires in the X5 - I hated the staggered setup on the Y perf. The wheels were too big and easily rashed. I knicked it not on a curb, but on a lip in the road from construction. I had plans to get new wheels and suspension, but didn't feel like doing that for the Y.
- Model Y range sucked on the highway. It is "rated" at 300ish. At highway speeds it is more like 220.
- I go to tahoe often, no way that would work in the Y - sorry if you think it is fine to spend time sitting at chargers often, but I would rather not.
- X5e is enough for my daily commute range wise. And I can take it on road trips
- Android Auto and Carplay are still better for me than Tesla's sytem. I like the maps interface better, and the HUD.
- Ventillated seats + massage in the x5 is really nice. X5 just feels luxurious. Tesla is more akin to a nice appliance.
- No 360 cam on the Y (rumored for a while). Definitely helps when needed.
- No blind spot on the mirrors. Nice to have. I still check manually, but it is nice to also have some extra help.

Hope that helps. Happy to answer questions. It is crazy how bad the Y's ride is compared to the S and X, which I know are much more expensive, but those cars are much nicer to be in and ride in.

A couple of my best friends have the 45e. IMHO, I recommend it as the best all purpose family SUV you can buy right now. You still get the $7500 fed credit which makes it a no brainer.

I agree with your overall assessment since we have a Model Y Performance as well. The ride is pretty stiff, but the handling is quite amazing for an SUV and the seats are comfortable as well. The newer MY have acoustic glass so the cabin is very quiet.

But the hard suspension is quite a chore on a long drive. The Model Y has a really good sounding audio system as well…also you don't need FSD (which we don't have) to get lame assist and such. Auto pilot works fine for that and is one of the best assisted cruise controls available. The problem is that Tesla has hyped up FSD so much that people forget that just Auto pilot is all they need…

I am looking forward to the iX.

[taek]

Originally Posted by LAKERS333

Yes but overall it seems like a whole different feel for an electric car and I didn't not like it much, considering it is roughly about 10k more (63k vs 74k) for a well equipped 45e.

I cross shopped the two as well but the Y came out to be more expensive in my case. My build for the Y was $68,990.

The 45e build was mid 70s but $3700k off MSRP from my dealer + $7500 fed tax rebate + $3250 PenFed = $14,450 off MSRP. The Y had none of those discounts and ended up being much more expensive for a lot less luxury.

[LAKERS333]

Originally Posted by taek

I cross shopped the two as well but the Y came out to be more expensive in my case. My build for the Y was $68,990.

The 45e build was mid 70s but $3700k off MSRP from my dealer + $7500 fed tax rebate + $3250 PenFed = $14,450 off MSRP. The Y had none of those discounts and ended up being much more expensive for a lot less luxury.

Wow! seems like an no brainer with all the rebates and discounts that you got. I cant seem to get any dealer discounts being in the market we are but I just applied for a PenFed account and once I am a member for I believe 60 days then I can use the $3250 cash and could also apply the $7500 tax credit.

[YuicyYumboYack]

Originally Posted by Wait What?

I think YuicyYumboYack gave you very good advice.

I have a 45e and it is just great size-wise for our family (we have a teenage girl and a lab): you may need more room as the trunk, while spacious, is certainly no match for a Tahoe. You may consider adding a roof box to the X5, which may help provide some additional cargo space. Also, where I am electric rates are definitely lower than in CA.

Having said all that, I love the 45e: it is an incredibly well engineered, very flexible vehicle which is a pleasure to drive: I use it fully electric around town and for short trips in the immediate vicinities and in Sport mode for longer trips on the highway. Great car.

Good luck with your choice!

Wait What?'s comment made me realize my post sounds like I'm not happy with the car. To be clear, I absolutely love the car.

My point was just that if you're looking to save money, there are cars similar in size that are cheaper and would save you more money than you would save by using electric mode on the 45e. But I think once you drive the x5 you won't be able to go with anything else (which is what happened to me).

In regards to the cost of electricity, I'm in CA as waitwhat mentioned and my cost to drive the car on pure electricity for a given number miles is about half of what it would cost on just fuel.

Good luck with the car search!

[teejnut]

Originally Posted by LAKERS333

Wow! seems like an no brainer with all the rebates and discounts that you got. I cant seem to get any dealer discounts being in the market we are but I just applied for a PenFed account and once I am a member for I believe 60 days then I can use the $3250 cash and could also apply the $7500 tax credit.

You can add the California Clean Fuel Reward discount too. It's currently $1500 but changes to $750 on Nov 2nd. https://cleanfuelreward.com/

[YuicyYumboYack]

Originally Posted by LAKERS333

Wow! seems like an no brainer with all the rebates and discounts that you got. I cant seem to get any dealer discounts being in the market we are but I just applied for a PenFed account and once I am a member for I believe 60 days then I can use the $3250 cash and could also apply the $7500 tax credit.

Generally it's not an issue for those shopping for a car in this price range, but I mention it because some people have misunderstood and ended up with a smaller tax refund.

Your federal tax liability has to be at least $7.5K for you to be able to take advantage of the full credit. So let's say your tax liability is $4k. In that case, only $4k of the $7.5K would apply, and the remaining $3.5K is not applicable.

[hksr]

This is great! I'm thinking about the 45e too as I have a charging station right outside my office at work. I'd guess that 99% of my mileage will be electric, so it'd make a ton of sense.

Any thoughts on a 40i vs 45e though? I'm in Canada, so I don't believe we get any federal EV credits on a 45e.

[LAKERS333]

That sucks that California Fuel Reward discount is being being reduced Nov. 2nd. I'll still take the $750 cause in this market hard to get any discounts.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by hksr

Any thoughts on a 40i vs 45e though? I'm in Canada, so I don't believe we get any federal EV credits on a 45e.

it would appear the 45e would provide a good use case for you. as for the pros/cons of the 40i vs 45e, you'll likely find more 45e owners will chime in this thread, so it may be a bit biased. helpful comparisons will come from folks who have owned both variants. there are several threads already in the 40i vs 45e subject to peruse. Good luck!

[LAKERS333]

Originally Posted by YuicyYumboYack

Generally it's not an issue for those shopping for a car in this price range, but I mention it because some people have misunderstood and ended up with a smaller tax refund.

Your federal tax liability has to be at least $7.5K for you to be able to take advantage of the full credit. So let's say your tax liability is $4k. In that case, only $4k of the $7.5K would apply, and the remaining $3.5K is not applicable.

That's the other misconception people have about the credit, as you mention you have to have the full 7.5k liability in order to put it to use.

[nZtiZia]

key words: eligible for up to $7500 tax credit

[jad03060]

I've used the $7500 tax credit twice, and had taxes above that amount, but the first time, got hit with the minimum alternate tax, which didn't allow me to use the whole amount, even though I'd spent more on taxes than the $7500...so, it's a bit more complicated than your tax bill must exceed $7500. There is a proposal to raise that, and remove the maximum upper limit, and to make it a larger amount for US built EVs, but if it's used in the same manner, the goal to help lower income people to buy an EV, it won't work, as their tax liability would not be high enough, so it wouldn't really help the low income people buy a vehicle since their taxes wouldn't be that high! I haven't read the details, but from the brief summaries in the news, that's my initial take on it.

FWIW, the EPA allows car companies to use their scheme for figuring the total miles, or an approved alternative...Tesla, to my knowledge, is the only one that chooses the later, mostly because it allows them legally to claim a larger number than they would if they used the same scheme (nearly?!) everyone else does...so, it's not apples to apples in the comparison...it allows them to report a higher range number than others with similar capabilities. IOW, it gives them a marketing edge, but also leads to some disappointment, as the EPA generic scheme is a bit more accurate for what it is...sort of like. the Euro test being more optimistic versus the US EPA range testing. Personally, I think the EPA should require ALL manufacturers to use exactly the same scheme, then it would be easier to compare, but at this time, they don't.

[FastMarkA]

Originally Posted by hksr

Any thoughts on a 40i vs 45e though? I'm in Canada, so I don't believe we get any federal EV credits on a 45e.

I had a '20 40i and now have a '21 45e.

Tax credits and incentives aside, I'd take the 45e all day long over the 40i:

• My daily driving averages 6 miles; unless I'm visiting family ~20 miles away, I am using electric almost exclusively
• I love having at least 30 miles of range every morning, and I now dread gas station visits
• It's noticeably faster 0-30mph; and overall, it's faster than the 40i
• It's quieter
• I like that I can pre-condition inside of a garage; you can't do that with ICE (well, unless you want to kill someone)
• These days, it's the only way to get air suspension (my 40i had air suspension and I couldn't imagine going without)

I drove about 400 miles in a Model Y before getting the 45e, and I echo the main criticisms from the posts above; it's not a nice ride, the fit/finish is poor, and frankly...it wasn't that nice to drive save the zippy electric acceleration.

The 45e has pretty much guaranteed I'll never own another ICE-exclusive car.

[hksr]

Originally Posted by FastMarkA

I had a '20 40i and now have a '21 45e.

Tax credits and incentives aside, I'd take the 45e all day long over the 40i:

• My daily driving averages 6 miles; unless I'm visiting family ~20 miles away, I am using electric almost exclusively
• I love having at least 30 miles of range every morning, and I now dread gas station visits
• It's noticeably faster 0-30mph; and overall, it's faster than the 40i
• It's quieter
• I like that I can pre-condition inside of a garage; you can't do that with ICE (well, unless you want to kill someone)
• These days, it's the only way to get air suspension (my 40i had air suspension and I couldn't imagine going without)

I drove about 400 miles in a Model Y before getting the 45e, and I echo the main criticisms from the posts above; it's not a nice ride, the fit/finish is poor, and frankly...it wasn't that nice to drive save the zippy electric acceleration.

The 45e has pretty much guaranteed I'll never own another ICE-exclusive car.

Thanks for this info. I drive about the same as you on a daily basis for work, so I figured I could potentially end up filling up gas a couple times a year (if that lol).

When I picked up my 40i, I got it for the 3rd row option, but with my wife picking up a full size truck soon, I won't need the 3rd row anymore so would love to go with the 45e this time around.

[jad03060]

In my first 10-months, I filled the gas tank once and only refilled it prior to a long trip where I filled it five times. Nearly everything else was done on electricity. Previously, my daily driver was an i3, but that required another vehicle for longer trips, and while it covered most of my impulse sidetrips, I had to be careful on some of them, especially in the wintertime, as that impacted the battery range, sometimes, considerably. I don't have to think about that at all with the 45e. The i3 was easier to park, but I ended up with a handicapped tag, so parking is usually easier. The i3 was more efficient, but when you throw in the fact I could eliminate one vehicle, the X5 was mostly a no-brainer for me.

[Flying Ace]

I haven't taken delivery yet. But main reasons I bought the 45e:


1. Works for my lifestyle. Roundtrip 10 city miles, all electric
2. Mid sized PHEV
3. Overall, it's a BMW. I come from BMWs and BMWs just drives better than most of their counterparts across the range
4. Pricing was materially cheaper than comps I was considering (XC90 T8 and Cayenne E Hybrid)

[sk701]

I am in the market for 45e; I had a deposit with a dealer under false promise to get November allocation but did not get one. I may have to wait till next year to get the car. I am not sure if the $7,500 will stay next year with the new infrastructure bill.

[jad03060]

Originally Posted by sk701

I am in the market for 45e; I had a deposit with a dealer under false promise to get November allocation but did not get one. I may have to wait till next year to get the car. I am not sure if the $7,500 will stay next year with the new infrastructure bill.

The existing law doesn't expire that I'm aware of other than the phase out based on manufacturer volume, and BMW has a ways to go, so I wouldn't worry about that...but, if it does pass, there is a proposal to potentially increase the payout. I do not know if the BMW factory is a union shop, but that was one of the conditions to get the additional money. Now, local, state, and utility rebates and offers, who knows what they're going to do...too many to keep track of, but you should be able to find out locally what's available, and their period of applicability.

Most people looking at an X5 will qualify for the full $7500 federal rebate, but that's not a given, based on your individual tax liability.

[sk701]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The existing law doesn't expire that I'm aware of other than the phase out based on manufacturer volume, and BMW has a ways to go, so I wouldn't worry about that...but, if it does pass, there is a proposal to potentially increase the payout. I do not know if the BMW factory is a union shop, but that was one of the conditions to get the additional money. Now, local, state, and utility rebates and offers, who knows what they're going to do...too many to keep track of, but you should be able to find out locally what's available, and their period of applicability.

Most people looking at an X5 will qualify for the full $7500 federal rebate, but that's not a given, based on your individual tax liability.

Thank you jad03060, I think the new proposal reduces the hybrid rebate and increases the all-electric rebates.

[BoolaBoola]

The proposed changes have mentioned a cap on car MSRP ranging from $40K to $80K. They also talked about only allowing the tax credit if earning less than $100K to $400K so in general, they are proposing changes to make the credit unavailable to higher income people buying higher cost cars. Where these caps end up once the final law passes is anyone's guess but personally I am happy to have a VIN assigned and expect that $7500 since I think it is more likely that I will lose that $7500 with the new law than get $10,000 if they don't institute price/income caps. There is a strong sentiment to screw the typical BMW buyer even if financially it brings in very little. If you are going to cap EV incentives to $40K vehicles on people earning $100K/year, that will knock out 80% of buyers so what is the point of trying to incentivize people to buy EVs?