Ok guys BMS JB vs Dinan F10 M5 review

[boots]

Bros,

Today me and the guys went on our country run. We had a great time with lots of curves to tame. For awhile on this forum the debate has been about Bms vrs Dinan piggys. Which one does this or that. Well the debate is over and I will let you know who the Clear winner is.

Mentioned in another thread I said me and Spinny will race and switch cars and race again. We did just that but did not race after switching cars. Instead. We put about 60 miles or so on the other persons car. This way we got a quantified conclusion about suspension, pull power, handling, turn in etc.

John and I raced 3 times. 3rd gear mdm or paddle. The first run we took off but I had missed a shift and developed a small problem. It didn't matter as his car took off on me. The 2nd run was better but the dinan car pulls better from the dig and keeps going. Now I am running 3.0 in the software. I don't know if I put it in 3.5 if it would make the diff. Poss but I can't say. We ran again and we took off the same but his car pulled two length in mine. I was surprised at that. Honestly there was nothing I could have done to win. I tried mdm auto and paddle. His car will pull on mine and there u have it. Thumbs up to spinnys car.

We then switch cars for 60 miles or so. The power delivery of mine. compared to his::: mine is more raw power as the dinan was more smooth. He is running the dinan sways and suspension also so turn in is so much better and hus suspension compared to my HR is better. I'd rather have the dinan suspension setup. It's not as bouncy. But I do like my Hr way over the stock units. Another member had the kwv3 but we didn't get a chance to ride in it as our day was for curve hugging. Bottom line is the dinan will pull on the bms and they made a good suspension package. Now for the lil money I spent I'm happy and satisfied and won't switch to another piggy. But for those who want the faster car, from my testing today dinan won. I'm all for being bias w a review as I not a paid spokesman. For 500 give or take you can get a fast bms product. For a few thousand you can gt a faster dinan package. It's all up to you. Sorry it took this long to get together but here it is in black and white.

Boots

[bronch]

Interesting, I am going back and forth between the two when my car comes in. I'm assuming this was the stage 2 Dinan? Also, do you guys have the same exhaust set up and intake? Thx.

[boots]

We both have dp and exhaust. His dp is nowell/dinan and mine is Rpi dp/straight pipe. The diff between the cars are the piggys. Both piggys are good. The decision for people will be the money factor and with that you get more pull which is always a good thing.

[patb23]

Very nice

[BIGW0RM]

Wait, so the DINAN tune walked the BMS tune? And forgive me, but where is the JB4 tune for the M5?

[boots]

No you didn't hear me say it walked my car. But it is a clear winner.

[JPMD]

Originally Posted by boots

No you didn't hear me say it walked my car. But it is a clear winner.

Boots thank so much for posting.

Do you ever run 3.5 BMS?

[boots]

I have never tried it before jpmd.

[BIGW0RM]

Originally Posted by boots

No you didn't hear me say it walked my car. But it is a clear winner.

You're right. Pardon me.

[Spinny02]

@Boots. Thank you for taking the time to post your comments.

For those who don't know, I have had both BMS (3 months) and Dinan Stage 2. In all honesty, my comments could be viewed as biased due to the time and effort I have invested in my Dinan package. It is great to have @Boots do a "third party review.”. I think this was summed up well by a member this weekend; "You get what you pay for.” I don't always agree with this adage, but in this case, I do.

For the BMS fans or those thinking about purchasing... I have no negative opinions about the BMS piggyback. The piggyback is easily installed and can be adjusted at home. I emailed BMS a few question and received fast responses. The piggyback did make a noticeable difference, so much that on my drive home from Eurocharge (shop who did the install) I called @boots and said he needed to buy it! (Note: Dinan had not released any M5 products at the time I purchased the BMS.)

As for the Dinan fans or those thinking about purchasing. this is the faster of the two piggybacks. The Dinan was proven over seven runs with different BMS cars ( Dinan 7 / BMS 0). Dinan's piggyback is the most comprehensive setup: more sensors under the piggybacks control, plugs directly in to the ECU's, includes up to 50k mile warranty, great customer service via phone/email, and a there is a huge list of local dealers for software updates. One note is that Dinan's unit is updatable and the updates have been free of charge to date. The update must be completed at a local Dinan dealer. It would be great if Dinan could make an APP to do the updates since they are transmitted via Bluetooth. This would save both the dealer and customer time.

I chose the Dinan system because they have a track record of providing their cars with usable, sustainable power. Honestly, I was not expecting it to be faster than the BMS. It would not be fair for me to compare the differences between BMS and Dinan because there was so much time between tunes. I can say however, that the Dinan stage two is an amazing setup. The TQ is always there and ready for use. It feels much like my old TTS. This is a noticeable difference that puts a smile on my face and a warranty in my pocket.

I intend to have this car in my stable for years to come, as I do not wish for a 1000+ HP M5 that would significantly shorten the engines life. Based on my past experience, I can assume my HP is somewhere around 720HP (708 HP Dinan Stage 2 Comp + 10-12HP Noelle catted DP's). I am happy with these numbers for my daily driver. Neither HP nor dyno numbers can describe the full Dinan driving experience; although I know @boots was able to "feel" the difference. This feeling is what we are all striving for in modding our cars... BMW is “The Ultimate Driving Machine” and the Dinan stage two is a match made in heaven for our F10 M5s and owners looking for sustainable power.

[RPiM5]

Guys thanks for sharing all of this information. I always knew that the Dinan setup would be the more comprehensive design just based on how the thing works compared to the BMS. The BMS Module is a very very simple design and setup and doesn't do anything but trick the ECU into thinking the turbo's are under-boosting. The Dinan module does much more, which is very good, but comes at a price. In my opinion the BMS is the best bang for the buck. Cheap and effective and the user can change the settings. Many other companies and tuners and have copied the BMS design, made some minor tweaks and claimed it as their own product, but it works exactly the same as the BMS does. I won't name any names. Dinan has done more, a lot more. I think it is worth every penny, although expensive, and now has been proven to actually be higher performing than a more simple design.

So I say, if you want to just have fun and play with your car, go with with the BMS. It's not a big investment. If you want to do rolling races, drag races, or destroy that random GTR you encounter on the highway, go for the Dinan tune, it performs better, but you pay for that performance.

For me personally, I won't be upgrading to the Dinan module. Maybe if I still lived in California and could still use big horsepower, but anything over 500hp on the East Coast is pretty much wasted horsepower. At least in Texas, you got wide open prairies and a few twisty roads. Here we have police that are ready to throw you in jail for doing as little as 20mph over the speed limit. Sometimes I find myself having more fun with the little piggyback tune I installed in my Fiat Abarth than with the BMS I installed on the M5. Just cause I know when I step on the gas I won't be doing over 100mph in less than 3 seconds. Lol!

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

@Boots. Thank you for taking the time to post your comments.

For those who don't know, I have had both BMS (3 months) and Dinan Stage 2. In all honesty, my comments could be viewed as biased due to the time and effort I have invested in my Dinan package. It is great to have @Boots do a "third party review.”. I think this was summed up well by a member this weekend; "You get what you pay for.” I don't always agree with this adage, but in this case, I do.

For the BMS fans or those thinking about purchasing... I have no negative opinions about the BMS piggyback. The piggyback is easily installed and can be adjusted at home. I emailed BMS a few question and received fast responses. The piggyback did make a noticeable difference, so much that on my drive home from Eurocharge (shop who did the install) I called @boots and said he needed to buy it! (Note: Dinan had not released any M5 products at the time I purchased the BMS.)

As for the Dinan fans or those thinking about purchasing. this is the faster of the two piggybacks. The Dinan was proven over seven runs with different BMS cars. Dinan's piggyback is the most comprehensive setup: more sensors under the piggybacks control, plugs directly in to the ECU's, includes up to 50k mile warranty, great customer service via phone/email, and a there is a huge list of local dealers for software updates. One note is that Dinan's unit is updatable and the updates have been free of charge to date. The update must be completed at a local Dinan dealer. It would be great if Dinan could make an APP to do the updates since they are transmitted via Bluetooth. This would save both the dealer and customer time.

I chose the Dinan system because they have a track record of providing their cars with usable, sustainable power. Honestly, I was not expecting it to be faster than the BMS. It would not be fair to compare the differences between BMS and Dinan because I there was so much time between tunes. I can say however, that the Dinan stage two is an amazing setup. The TQ is always there and ready for use. It feels much like my old TTS. This is a noticeable difference that puts a smile on my face and a warranty in my pocket.

I intend to have this car in my stable for years to come, as I do not wish for a 1000+ HP M5 that would significantly shorten the engines life. Based on my past experience, I can assume my HP is somewhere around 720HP (708 HP Dinan Stage 2 Comp + 10-12HP Noelle catted DP's). I am happy with these numbers for my daily driver. Neither HP nor dyno numbers can describe the full Dinan driving experience; although I know @boots was able to "feel" the difference. This feeling is what we are all striving for in modding our cars... BMW is “The Ultimate Driving Machine” and the Dinan stage two is a match made in heaven for our F10 M5s and owners looking for sustainable power.

Looks like it's running well! When it comes to races keep in mind lots of little variables can also effect the outcome. Fuel quality, traction, driver skill, and sometimes one car is just faster than another for no known reason.

The Dinan is more like a BMS JB4 system so should be stronger than the BMS Stage1 in theory but I'd love to see more race results come in before making that determination.

Mike

[Used2be]

Originally Posted by boots

We had a great time with lots of curves to tame.

He is running the dinan sways and suspension also so turn in is so much better and hus suspension compared to my HR is better. I'd rather have the dinan suspension setup. It's not as bouncy. But I do like my Hr way over the stock units. Another member had the kwv3 but we didn't get a chance to ride in it as our day was for curve hugging.

Boots

Thanks for the impartial write up, very informative. But darn it, it would have been great to check out the KW v3 in the handling department to compare to the Dinan while you guys were curve hugging! I'm still trying to decide which way to jump between the KW HAS, the KW v3, and the Dinan.

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Looks like it's running well! When it comes to races keep in mind lots of little variables can also effect the outcome. Fuel quality, traction, driver skill, and sometimes one car is just faster than another for no known reason.

Mike

Mike,

Agreed on all counts. We were both using 93 octane, rolling race with the same settings. This leaves driver skill. I have to say that i do Dinan a disjustice.... My Vbox times are downright horrible... See the attached. Boots has a one up on me on the drivers skill. Also note that Boots has Cattless DP vs my catted so he theoretically has 20+ more HP. My Noelles showed 10 hp gain on dyno.

That 20 hp should negate my CP power.

[Dinan_Engineering]

I would like to thank Spinny and Boots for about as an impartial review and synopsis as anyone could ask for. I think the community as a whole thanks your efforts and appreciate all the info.

Originally Posted by Used2be

I'm still trying to decide which way to jump between the KW HAS, the KW v3, and the Dinan.

I would vote for the Dinan but then again I am biased.

Originally Posted by RPiM5

Sometimes I find myself having more fun with the little piggyback tune I installed in my Fiat Abarth than with the BMS I installed on the M5. Just cause I know when I step on the gas I won't be doing over 100mph in less than 3 seconds. Lol!

One of our cohorts here just purchased a Fiat Abarth and absolutely loves the thing. Apparently it is a great little go kart as hideous as it may be (opinions may differ on its attractiveness).

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

Mike,

Agreed on all counts. We were both using 93 octane, rolling race with the same settings. This leaves driver skill. I have to say that i do Dinan a disjustice.... My Vbox times are downright horrible... See the attached. Boots has a one up on me on the drivers skill. Also note that Boots has Cattless DP vs my catted so he theoretically as 20+ more HP. My Noelles showed 10 hp gain on dyno.

Both cars are CP right?

125-126mph in the 1/4 is running well and what I'd expect on pump gas for a tuned/DP M5. I know the BMS Stage1 cars run in the same range. With good traction/launch it's enough power to run mid 11s!

There is always a great turn out at the socal airport races. I've been looking at videos from this weekends Shift Sector and saw several tuned M5s but none with Dinan. I'm sure sooner or later the M5 Dinan guys will start showing up the events and we'll get a good sample size to look at.

Mike

[AstonMartian777]

Originally Posted by Dinan_Engineering

I would like to thank Spinny and Boots for about as an impartial review and synopsis as anyone could ask for. I think the community as a whole thanks your efforts and appreciate all the info.



I would vote for the Dinan but then again I am biased.



One of our cohorts here just purchased a Fiat Abarth and absolutely loves the thing. Apparently it is a great little go kart as hideous as it may be (opinions may differ on its attractiveness).

Why don't you guys do race gas integration, that way those wanting to run more boost are able to do so, because I have a meth kit but I'd rather use it with your tune, but you have no option for it. Thanks !

[Spinny02]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Both cars are CP right?

125-126mph in the 1/4 is running well and what I'd expect on pump gas for a tuned/DP M5. I know the BMS Stage1 cars run in the same range. With good traction/launch it's enough power to run mid 11s!

There is always a great turn out at the socal airport races. I've been looking at videos from this weekends Shift Sector and saw several tuned M5s but none with Dinan. I'm sure sooner or later the M5 Dinan guys will start showing up the events and we'll get a good sample size to look at.

Mike

Traction is my issue i can't get off the line... i tried but i just don't have the skills..i suck at launching no matter what tune BMW, Stock, Dinan . I guess thats why i have always owned AWD cars until now =P. No boots does not have CP.

[boots]

Mine my car is a 2013. No cp. I have the upper hand on driver skill. But there is nothing I can do against a car that was a clear winner 3 times so I give props when they are due. Both spinny and I drive 60 plus miles in each other's cars. Actually even the seat time clearly shows the real winner. It also had a smoother power delivery. I run your product so naturally I really want to win but sorry that just wasn't the case. Also. I love the way my car drives w the bms. Simple to use. If u guys were able to up the anti I would be the first person inline to buy but that's not the case. Our cars are pretty much even sans the Catless dp. But I also have more seat time in my car than spinny. But when both cars mash at the same speed/rpm and one car goes and goes the only thing on can do is smile. Everyone expected a good race and it was. Spinny won and is the champ for Saturday. Next week I will put my Fred flint stones to work and hopefully win next time.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by boots

Mine my car is a 2013. No cp. I have the upper hand on driver skill. But there is nothing I can do against a car that was a clear winner 3 times so I give props when they are due. Both spinny and I drive 60 plus miles in each other's cars. Actually even the seat time clearly shows the real winner. It also had a smoother power delivery. I run your product so naturally I really want to win but sorry that just wasn't the case. Also. I love the way my car drives w the bms. Simple to use. If u guys were able to up the anti I would be the first person inline to buy but that's not the case. Our cars are pretty much even sans the Catless dp. But I also have more seat time in my car than spinny. But when both cars mash at the same speed/rpm and one car goes and goes the only thing on can do is smile. Everyone expected a good race and it was. Spinny won and is the champ for Saturday. Next week I will put my Fred flint stones to work and hopefully win next time.

See my last post re: why you lost. If you want to get faster raise the boost and up the octane a bit to compensate for the CP. If you want to get smoother email Terry at BMS to help test the new firmware settings.

Mike

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Spinny02

Traction is my issue i can't get off the line... i tried but i just don't have the skills..i suck at launching no matter what tune BMW, Stock, Dinan . I guess thats why i have always owned AWD cars until now =P. No boots does not have CP.

The M5s that are running really low 11s are mostly using either radials or a road race tire like the ToyoR888. Something to look in to!

On the CP that completely explains these results. I'll explain.

The CP runs around 1.5psi more and 1-2 degrees less ignition advance than the base tuning. The BMS Stage1 is intended to add around 3psi on pump gas and from what I've seen the Dinan is also adding around 3psi. So as a CP car with Dinan comparing to a BMS Stage1 without CP you're going to wind up with 1.5psi more boost and a little less advance which is advantageous when running higher boost levels on pump gas.

For boots to match your tuning level he would need to run around a 5psi setting on the Stage1. But, he would be over advanced for 93 octane as he doesn't have the CP base map, so to get away with that boost level he would want to increase the octane a bit. Maybe with a can of NOS octane booster or by mixing in some race gas.

In any event based on gmds same car vbox results it's clear the tunes are making around the same power on pump gas so the CP difference adds up here.

Mike

[boots]

I will up the Boost to 3.5 only but I won't add any type of additive to the car it's not worth it to me