This guy thinks M engines aren’t as reliable as other BMW engines

[DrivingPassion]

This guys is saying that all M-engines are less reliable than the regular inline 6 engines in the non-M cars. Is this making sense?

always manual — less complexities
No xi —- AWD —- too much complexities
No turbos --- at least, not yet.

Summary of the most reliable BMW engines

1. E36 325i (1995-199) inline 6
2. E46 330i, 330ci, 330zhp, 3.0L inline 6, M54B30 engine
3. E46 325i , another variation of the M54 engine --- M54B25
4. E90 328i , N52B30 engine
5. E90 330i , N52B30 engine

[jdgamble]

He basically said the turbo engines and the E9x V8 aren’t as reliable as the older naturally aspirated inline 6s. I would tend to agree with that. The V8 had issues. I had one lemoned myself. And certainly the early turbos were problematic. That being said, it seems like they’ve improved the turbo engines more recently. And based on this board, the S55 is pretty solid. So we have that going for us.

[mfurse]

Thing is that most M car owners tend to look after their cars, regular servicing and can generally afford repairs. So reliability is probably a reflection of that care over time.






They probably occasionally drive them like they stole them too!

[DrivingPassion]

Originally Posted by BMWModel3

No one gets M cars for reliability

There is a difference in reliability among exotics cars: a Ferrari is more reliable than Lamborghini.
And, the reliability of a Porsche trumps both of the above.

Expensive performance cars do not need to be unreliable. If they are, how could their race cousins compete on the track?

[DrivingPassion]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

[...] The V8 had issues. I had one lemoned myself. And certainly the early turbos were problematic. [...]

I thought the V8 on the E90 M3 is one of the best BMW engines ever designed. The sound of the V8 is intoxicating.

[ra2289]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

I thought the V8 on the E90 M3 is one of the best BMW engines ever designed. The sound of the V8 is intoxicating.

It's a great engine no doubt but did/does have a few known issues; rod bearings, idle control valve, throttle actuators.

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by jdgamble

He basically said the turbo engines and the E9x V8 aren’t as reliable as the older naturally aspirated inline 6s. I would tend to agree with that. The V8 had issues. I had one lemoned myself. And certainly the early turbos were problematic. That being said, it seems like they’ve improved the turbo engines more recently. And based on this board, the S55 is pretty solid. So we have that going for us.

I'm pretty sure the old S54 wasn't very reliable either (VANOS, rod bearings, etc.)

[THEROK]

The most "reliable" engine to me is the one powering the vehicle that's been managed and enjoyed by a well-informed auto enthusiast since new who doesn't cut maintenance corners and can't rest ez knowing something's amiss.

It's the humans that f things up not the machine.

Anecdotally, BMW M4 GT4s use your basic ol' S55... C63s, Guila Quads... crickets. Businesses like Apex that rely on heavily on uptime to put food on the table use the F80 to whip customers around the 'ring every day of every season. RS, AMG, Fiat... crickets. S55 has served a full gen now. Pretty legit if you ask me, but do keep an eye on your charge cooler fluid level.

[Keca10]

Had 3 M cars before F80. Never cut maintenance corners. Changed oil twice as often as recommended. Only serviced at the dealer with BMW parts. No expenses spared on maintenance.

E46 - failed at 40k miles. cracked block due to bad casting. Needed a full new engine.
E60 - failed around 60k miles. Fuel injector failed and hydrolocked the engine. Bent two rods. Needed a full new engine. Also had typical throttle body issue. Repairs added to $60k all said and done. Lots of fuel and heat damaged many surrounding parts which kept failing over the next 12 months. Glad it didn’t burn down.... still loved that car.
E70 - throttle body and fuel injector issues again around 50k miles. But milder. Limp mode to dealer. Just replaced parts (injectors, throttle body).

So 3/3 had failed due to clear mfg quality problems (undiscovered casting fault, bad batch of Bosch fuel injectors, common faults....). 2/3 needed a complete new engine. All under 70k miles with perfect maintenance, no abuse. Super clean cars on paper. No mods.

I am on my 4th M car. Let’s hope for the best now for the F80. I sure didn’t get it for reliability or gas mileage.

[jdgamble]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

I'm pretty sure the old S54 wasn't very reliable either (VANOS, rod bearings, etc.)

Good point. Lotsa rod bearing issues. At least BMW extended the warranty on that one.

[DrivingPassion]

Originally Posted by THEROK

[...]
Anecdotally, BMW M4 GT4s use your basic ol' S55... C63s, Guila Quads... crickets. Businesses like Apex that rely on heavily on uptime to put food on the table use the F80 to whip customers around the 'ring every day of every season. RS, AMG, Fiat... crickets. S55 has served a full gen now. Pretty legit if you ask me, but do keep an eye on your charge cooler fluid level.

Wouldn't the dashboard raise an Alert if the charge cooler fluid level is below tolerance? Is there a sensor for that one?

[cfm56d7b]

The quest to reduce complexity will lead someone to seriously consider Trabant which had no tachometer, no turn signal indicators, no fuel gauge, no rear seat belts ... and more.

M engines are high performance engines. There is always an answer to reliability: a 3 year lease or extended warranty.

It's less about reliability and more about how to mitigate risk and focus on more important things such as revisiting the reason for purchasing an M vehicle in the first place.

[THEROK]

Originally Posted by Keca10

Had 3 M cars before F80. Never cut maintenance corners. Changed oil twice as often as recommended. Only serviced at the dealer with BMW parts. No expenses spared on maintenance.

E46 - failed at 40k miles. cracked block due to bad casting. Needed a full new engine.
E60 - failed around 60k miles. Fuel injector failed and hydrolocked the engine. Bent two rods. Needed a full new engine. Also had typical throttle body issue. Repairs added to $60k all said and done. Lots of fuel and heat damaged many surrounding parts which kept failing over the next 12 months. Glad it didn’t burn down.... still loved that car.
E70 - throttle body and fuel injector issues again around 50k miles. But milder. Limp mode to dealer. Just replaced parts (injectors, throttle body).

So 3/3 had failed due to clear mfg quality problems (undiscovered casting fault, bad batch of Bosch fuel injectors, common faults....). 2/3 needed a complete new engine. All under 70k miles with perfect maintenance, no abuse. Super clean cars on paper. No mods.

I am on my 4th M car. Let’s hope for the best now for the F80. I sure didn’t get it for reliability or gas mileage.

you're a glutton for punishment yo

curious, though... which of the 3, if any, did you own since new?

[THEROK]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

Wouldn't the dashboard raise an Alert if the charge cooler fluid level is below tolerance? Is there a sensor for that one?

nada dude, but if u find it on the dash pls let us know lmao

[Keca10]

Originally Posted by THEROK

you're a glutton for punishment yo

curious, though... which of the 3, if any, did you own since new?

Good question. None.

Even the F80 had 3000 miles when I got it two weeks ago. Previous owner had it for 6 months.

E46 competition was almost new, too. 13k miles when I bought it in perfect shape. Super well taken care of it was immaculate. I did learn later that it was used as the “BMW performance center car” in NC. Still.... hard driving didn’t crack the block.

E60 was bought with 40k miles and E70M was off lease with mid 30k miles.

All cars had perfect PPIs, history (E46 was claimed as “corporate car” for first 2500 miles but with great maintenance records), etc.

[THEROK]

Originally Posted by Keca10

Good question. None.

Even the F80 had 3000 miles when I got it two weeks ago. Previous owner had it for 6 months.

E46 competition was almost new, too. 13k miles when I bought it in perfect shape. Super well taken care of it was immaculate. I did learn later that it was used as the "BMW performance center car" in NC. Still.... hard driving didn't crack the block.

E60 was bought with 40k miles and E70M was off lease with mid 30k miles.

All cars had perfect PPIs, history (E46 was claimed as "corporate car" for first 2500 miles but with great maintenance records), etc.

Thanks for being straight up.

I've never had any catastrophic failures, knock on fiber, and I've bought a couple used performance variants in my past which includes a one year old E46 M3 owned by my brother.

I tend to buy later in the gen as I want things to marinate a bit before jumping into the deep end.

I'd without hesitation get back into...

E46 M3 manual comp
997.1 GT3

You couldn't pay me to buy another...

M9x based 911

The only other M vehicle(s) I trust to actually own with peace of mind at present...

F8x (because I'm the first owner, crank hub not worried, charge cooler leak is a nuisance and easily remediated though TBD long term)

Everything else is too risky. Too complex. Too old. Too heavy and just nothing looks as good as the '18+ M4 ZCP.

Future vehicle will be a 991.2 GT3, but waiting to see that the real race lump finally powering it is good to go v the fail of an engine that is the .1 9A1.

[Keca10]

Originally Posted by THEROK

Thanks for being straight up.

I've never had any catastrophic failures, knock on fiber, and I've bought a couple used performance variants in my past which includes a one year old E46 M3 owned by my brother.

I tend to buy later in the gen as I want things to marinate a bit before jumping into the deep end.

I'd without hesitation get back into...

E46 M3 manual comp
997.1 GT3

You couldn't pay me to buy another...

M9x based 911

The only other M vehicle(s) I trust to actually own with peace of mind at present...

F8x (because I'm the first owner, crank hub not worried, charge cooler leak is a nuisance and easily remediated though TBD long term)

Everything else is too risky. Too complex. Too old. Too heavy and just nothing looks as good as the '18+ M4 ZCP.

Future vehicle will be a 991.2 GT3, but waiting to see that the real race lump finally powering it is good to go v the fail of an engine that is the .1 9A1.

Ha. I was eyeing the 991.1 because Porsche market is so crazy - especially GT3s. There will be good deals because of all the bad rep that engine got, as long as you can live with PDK. I bet they will start to dip under 100k soon. If the market crashes the rest will come down, too.

I also looked at the 991.1 GTS (last manual, NA P-car in highest spec) but interior/infotainment is VERY outdated and prices are exaggerated. I like having a back seat for the kids, too.

Anyway - I agree with you on E46 ZCP. Loved that car. Last of M cars I could work on easily. After that things became much less fun to DIY and maintain.

[chris719]

This is almost 100% true.

BMW does not have a good track record with the S engines in terms of failure rate compared to the normal series engines. Some recent examples:

1. S62 - vanos and oil sump solenoid failures
2. S54 - rod bearing and vanos issues (still exist after initial recall)
3. S85 - high rate of rod bearing failure, occasional main bearings
4. S65 - high rate of rod bearing failure, occasional main bearing failure, throttle actuator, idle control valve
5. S55 - pretty good other than crank hubs and charge air cooler leaks


My guess is the normal M / N / B series engines are subjected to a lot more testing. The only real lemon of those might be the earlier built N63 engines and the N54 for HPFP and wastegate.

[THEROK]

Without real data this is all internet dorks huff and puff. Just enjoy the ride. These ice rides aren't going to last much longer.

[DrivingPassion]

Originally Posted by chris719

This is almost 100% true.

BMW does not have a good track record with the S engines in terms of failure rate compared to the normal series engines. Some recent examples:

1. S62 - vanos and oil sump solenoid failures
2. S54 - rod bearing and vanos issues (still exist after initial recall)
3. S85 - high rate of rod bearing failure, occasional main bearings
4. S65 - high rate of rod bearing failure, occasional main bearing failure, throttle actuator, idle control valve
5. S55 - pretty good other than crank hubs and charge air cooler leaks


My guess is the normal M / N / B series engines are subjected to a lot more testing. The only real lemon of those might be the earlier built N63 engines and the N54 for HPFP and wastegate.

ha ha ...
So, what does the S in engine code stand for, among the S62, S54, S85 ... ?

S = Superior or
S = Shitty ?

[Keca10]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

ha ha ...
So, what does the S in engine code stand for, among the S62, S54, S85 ... ?

S = Superior or
S = Shitty ?

Shporty

[DrivingPassion]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

Wouldn't the dashboard raise an Alert if the charge cooler fluid level is below tolerance? Is there a sensor for that one?

If not, then where do you check it?