440i vs M4 vs M2 for a "project" car?

[phillipwarner]

Hey, I'm currently daily driving a 2020 CLA 35 lease. It's a fun zippy little car that makes a bit of noise, but I want a car that I can build and work on for the weekends. I test drove the 2020 M340i, and I just didn't like it. The sound sounded super artificial (More than the mercedes), the steering felt heavy to the point of feeling artificial, and the car just felt heavy for me. Hope I don't catch any flack, those where just my first impressions. I want to get a second car to work on and upgrade, and the BMWs seem like a good option. For the price, are the M4 and M2 worth it over the 440 for someone who wants a car to primarily to work on? Also, I'm probably going to be buying around January, is there expected to be a extra large drop in prices with the new 4 series/M4 coming?

Also, is there a large difference between the M340i I drove and the older M4/M2/440i? Is the steering, fake sound, and driving different? I hope so.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by phillipwarner

Hey, I'm currently daily driving a 2020 CLA 35 lease. It's a fun zippy little car that makes a bit of noise, but I want a car that I can build and work on for the weekends. I test drove the 2020 M340i, and I just didn't like it. The sound sounded super artificial (More than the mercedes), the steering felt heavy to the point of feeling artificial, and the car just felt heavy for me. Hope I don't catch any flack, those where just my first impressions. I want to get a second car to work on and upgrade, and the BMWs seem like a good option. For the price, are the M4 and M2 worth it over the 440 for someone who wants a car to primarily to work on? Also, I'm probably going to be buying around January, is there expected to be a extra large drop in prices with the new 4 series/M4 coming?

Also, is there a large difference between the M340i I drove and the older M4/M2/440i? Is the steering, fake sound, and driving different? I hope so.

What do you mean when you state that you search a car to work on?

M4 and M2 should be about the best you can get from a 4 or a 2 since made by the masters themselves. You can stage 1/2 them of course, downpipe switch, eibach dampers on it, akrapovic exhaust? Does this make them better? Doubt it, the balance just shifts to more rawness and less daily driver. Less environmental friendly, less reliable and less longetivity in case you would use the extra power. Remember that the DCT reserves for more torque are limited (if any), but this is also true for the manual.

When a M340i felt heavy and synthetic, I don't believe a 440i is a better car to start from. M340i seems to be a super pleasant vehicle to live with as a daily.

Maybe test the M2c and when this is not convincing, test the A45?

[phillipwarner]

Very interesting. I was leaning towards BMW because of depreciation, I don't want a new car. So you're saying that if I didn't like the M340 I won't like the old 440? And the M2 and M4 aren't worth it because I won''t really be able to tune them further?

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by phillipwarner

Very interesting. I was leaning towards BMW because of depreciation, I don't want a new car. So you're saying that if I didn't like the M340 I won't like the old 440? And the M2 and M4 aren't worth it because I won''t really be able to tune them further?

You can most probably tune them further. But how does tuning more noise and power automatically equals to a better vehicle? M4c was for me a perfect fine balance between rawness and daily usuability. So besides the M340i maybe give the M4/2 a try?

[maddmatth]

What sports cars have you driven and how much track time do you have that makes you think you need to work on the M2/4 right away? Do you think they're not going to be fast enough for you in stock form?

[phillipwarner]

No. I'm not going to track at all. It isn't that they aren't fast enough, the opposite actually. I'm afraid that they are already tuned so well that there isn't any real work I can do myself. The whole point of this for me is to have some fun with and tune a car.

[AlterZgo]

Originally Posted by phillipwarner

No. I'm not going to track at all. It isn't that they aren't fast enough, the opposite actually. I'm afraid that they are already tuned so well that there isn't any real work I can do myself. The whole point of this for me is to have some fun with and tune a car.

If you're already satisfied with speed, then the M cars are ideal for you because one of the biggest drawbacks to tuning is voiding warranty and most people think about that typically just in terms of blowing up the engine.

With speed out the of the way, there's s TON of other stuff you can mess around with, most of which will be warranty friendly. You can start with looks, i.e. body kits, tint, head and tail lights and progress to rims/tires, suspension, exhaust, etc. Are you into handling? Or are you into having a stanced set up? Air suspension? Track suspension? All these options are available for this car.

So, yeah, as a platform, the M3/M4 is VERY tunable. It is a fairly popular platform with many vendors at very broad price points. You can spend $200 to $500 for diffusers and rear wings or you can spend thousands of dollars for the same parts from 3D Design and other higher end parts mfgs. You can drop $2K for a set of cheap new rims/tires or you can drop $12K on HREs. Lots of options for people who feel a need to modify their cars.

If you're into electronics, you can upgrade the sound system, do coding to unlock a ton of different things for the car, etc.

Because of how popular it is to mod the M3/M4, it has a fairly good used parts market as well where you can get almost any part at a good price as long as you are willing to wait for the right one to show up for sale.

I think this is an outstanding platform given the broad range of quality products around at many different price points to fit your budget.

[maddmatth]

Originally Posted by phillipwarner

No. I'm not going to track at all. It isn't that they aren't fast enough, the opposite actually. I'm afraid that they are already tuned so well that there isn't any real work I can do myself. The whole point of this for me is to have some fun with and tune a car.

Then the 340i/440i will suit you well. Maybe even the older E9x 335is. Just make sure you see them as a fast fun sporty street car, and don't chase after the dream of making a M equivalent.
It's easy to get carried away and do expensive mods that have no to little benefit outside a track - solid bushings ect. Take a guess how I know

I did reply to your Reddit thread as well btw.

You might want to consider the Z4 or Supra too... the Supra should have a good tuner following.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by phillipwarner

No. I'm not going to track at all. It isn't that they aren't fast enough, the opposite actually. I'm afraid that they are already tuned so well that there isn't any real work I can do myself. The whole point of this for me is to have some fun with and tune a car.

That's an entirely different story. When you want to improve the car yourself, you better don't start with an M then since it's already honed to perfection.

On a 440i artifical noise can get desactivated and with a sport exhaust, you'll fix the noise part. The suspension can get tuned sharper, a lot of good retro fit kits available: springs/shocks/sway bars. This will also (mildly) improve the steering feel. Put on some nice 19inch rims with Michelin PS4S to improve this a bit further and consider serious brembo's. Braking power as such is not an issue with std/sport brakes, but on circuit they become too hot a bit too fast. A mild tune stage 1 is almost risk free on a 440i (a lot of mechanical margin in the transmission and the engine) to bring it to 380/400hp. Also install a sport air intake filter to add some aural drama and release a few hp extra. Maybe a diffuser/spoiler kit to reduce air underneath the car, reduce turbulence and increase down-force a bit?

Seems already a nice little project to me!

[spool twice]

I'd actually go with something more raw personally, like an E46 M3 and supercharge it...

But out of the three, the M2 is a nice project car and still small. I feel the F/G 3/4 series have gotten too big.

[phillipwarner]

I hope you are right. I expected and hoped for WAY more when I test drove the 330 and m340. I wanted the BMWs to be great, they lease so well and look nice, but they just weren't. I could lease the new M4 in 3 years.

[phillipwarner]

You'd make a good sales person, thanks. What are some good places to get parts?

[phillipwarner]

Thanks

[phillipwarner]

It does, the comments are literally split down the middle though.

[jmg]

Sounds like you want a E46 M3. That's what I would get as a project car.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by jmg

Sounds like you want a E46 M3. That's what I would get as a project car.

What would you do with it to make it any better whilst avoiding that you blow everything to pieces after a bit of spanking?

[NYG]

What are you building it for? I had a 440 and loved it but the M4 saves you a bunch of extra mods you have to do so it's kind of bad option.

For track: M2 would probably be a better project car

For straight line or tuning it for power, just get an LT4 Camaro or something. You'll get way more power out of it reliably. People on this forum still pay crazy money for "crank hub" snake oil fixes lol.

[nepats81]

Originally Posted by NYG

What are you building it for? I had a 440 and loved it but the M4 saves you a bunch of extra mods you have to do so it's kind of bad option.

For track: M2 would probably be a better project car

For straight line or tuning it for power, just get an LT4 Camaro or something. You'll get way more power out of it reliably. People on this forum still pay crazy money for "crank hub" snake oil fixes lol.

the crank hub is a hoax?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by nepats81

the crank hub is a hoax?

No, crank hub "solutions" are.

[KoenG]

Originally Posted by NYG

What are you building it for? I had a 440 and loved it but the M4 saves you a bunch of extra mods you have to do so it's kind of bad option.

For track: M2 would probably be a better project car

For straight line or tuning it for power, just get an LT4 Camaro or something. You'll get way more power out of it reliably. People on this forum still pay crazy money for "crank hub" snake oil fixes lol.

I believe you're right, when you want to tune a i440 to the level of a M4, you'll probably end up with a more expensive car that's less reliable than the real M. Also, chances you get the same balanced car are near to zero.

[phillipwarner]

Yea I like those too. I thought the only difference with the GC is the 2 extra doors?