Jerez Black Detail Question

[Mystic195]

I just purchased a remaining 08 Jerez Black on Fox Red Sedan and want to detail the car completely. The dealership prepped the car but it has some minor swirls left over from the washes while it was on their lot. I am looking for some advise on what anyone recommends to use as a polish to buff out the swirls. I just bought some stuff from Chemical Guys and would like to know what pads, polishing compounds, techniques to use. I will try and post some pictures of the swirls.

Here is what I bought from Chemical Guys:

Citrus Wash & Gloss
JETseal109
Clay Bar (MEDIUM DUTY) Gray and Detail Lube
Bare Bones UnderCarriage Spray
Wheel Guard Wheel Wax
Silk Shine Sprayable Dressing Natural Shine
50/50 wax

[attbimmer]

Menzerna SIP (PO83) followed by Menzerna SF (PO106FA) should take care of it.

[Mystic195]

Where do you guys buy it from and what pads do you use?

[signes]

Originally Posted by attbimmer

Menzerna SIP (PO83) followed by Menzerna SF (PO106FA) should take care of it.

SIP is probably way too strong for a few pre-delivery swirls. Have a go with a light/finishing polish like 106FA and a white pad, should take care of it. If not, you could go more abrasive but I doubt you will need it. BMWs have very soft paint so going too heavy is not advised. There are many other options for light polishes but Menzerna seems to be gaining popularity again with their new polishes/products.

I have bought from Autogeek.com and have always had good service (put in code "autopia" for 10% off.) Detailers Domain is another option and they are a sponsor here I believe.

[WIKKDM3]

I have an e92 jerez black and took delivery immediately when it came off the truck, with the plastic still on it. I always used the utmost care when washing it and still, because the clear coat is so soft, put very fine lines in the paint. I have quite a collection of products now, and used the following to remove the lines...

1. Chemical Guys CWG with a foam cannon and two bucket method with grit guards

2. CG clay bar and meg's final inspection as lube

3. Dry with mf waffle weave and The Absorber chamois

4. First pass polish with Menzerna Nano and White Lake Country Pad

5. Deeper lines/scratches were taken out with Menzerna SIP and green/white lc pads

6. Second pass polish with Menzerna Nano and black lc pad

7. Third polish with Menzerna Glaze and black lc pad

8. Meg's Final Inspection to remove any remaining polish residue

9. Two coats of CG Jetseal 109 with mf applicator

10. Two coats of CG 50/50 wax with small red lc pad done by hand

Jerez is a beautiful color but an absolute pain to take care of. The only bright side to my trials and tribulations is that I now know what works to restore the paint and what doesn't. I also used a very fine mist of water to dampen the pads lightly before applying the polish. This seemed to really help in my opinion. Hope this helps mate. PM me if you have any other questions or want pics.

[signes]

Excellent routine, nice step by step.

[Mystic195]

WIKKDM3 Thanks for the step by step. I am going to try the steps you stated. I need to buy some of the Menzerna products but everything else I have.

What speeds on the polisher did you use? When you were applying the 50/50 did you apply it with your bare hands and then take it off with the pad or put it on with the pad and take it off with a microfiber cloth?

Thanks again for all of the help.

[SpecC]

SIP should be fine for your car. just finish it up with 106FF and/or PO85RD. PO85RD's gloss is amazing!

[signes]

I thought 106FA was the replacement for PO85rd? I also don't recommend something with too much cut and I think SIP would be too much for "minor swirls", especially with the soft clears we have.

[SpecC]

Originally Posted by signes

I thought 106FA was the replacement for PO85rd? I also don't recommend something with too much cut and I think SIP would be too much for "minor swirls", especially with the soft clears we have.

106FA is basically 106FF which has more bite than PO85RD. PO85RD is such a fine polish that it just about has no bite at all. SIP won't take that much paint off anyway. If 106FF works, you can skip SIP, but on most dark colors I've worked on, SIP was absolutely necessary even on new paint.

[WIKKDM3]

Absolutely agree that on dark cars the menzerna sip will need to be used. But, in my opinion, I doubt the entire car would need it, most likely just the trouble areas, such as the front fenders, hood and bootlid. I always start with the least cut and then work backwards, as there is no point removing more microns of paint than necessary or to make your job more difficult by cutting the paint to much. Just my 0.02.

[Bdez]

Originally Posted by WIKKDM3

I have an e92 jerez black and took delivery immediately when it came off the truck, with the plastic still on it. I always used the utmost care when washing it and still, because the clear coat is so soft, put very fine lines in the paint. I have quite a collection of products now, and used the following to remove the lines...

1. Chemical Guys CWG with a foam cannon and two bucket method with grit guards

2. CG clay bar and meg's final inspection as lube

3. Dry with mf waffle weave and The Absorber chamois

4. First pass polish with Menzerna Nano and White Lake Country Pad

5. Deeper lines/scratches were taken out with Menzerna SIP and green/white lc pads

6. Second pass polish with Menzerna Nano and black lc pad

7. Third polish with Menzerna Glaze and black lc pad

8. Meg's Final Inspection to remove any remaining polish residue

9. Two coats of CG Jetseal 109 with mf applicator

10. Two coats of CG 50/50 wax with small red lc pad done by hand

Jerez is a beautiful color but an absolute pain to take care of. The only bright side to my trials and tribulations is that I now know what works to restore the paint and what doesn't. I also used a very fine mist of water to dampen the pads lightly before applying the polish. This seemed to really help in my opinion. Hope this helps mate. PM me if you have any other questions or want pics.

Sounds like a good plan to me. Even though I asked the dealer to NOT polish it in pre-delivery they went and did a minor buff which introduced very minor swirls. I was advised to use the Menz 106ff with a grey pad to see if that would help without reverting to a harder polish and/or pad combo with the Festool RO. Have to say it worked very well and while it wasn’t 100% perfect it was 98% plus which was good enough for me especially on brand new paint .

[BMWDEMON]

nice, taking note on this post for down the road....the car will need some work down the road but very clean as of now.

THanks for the post!

M

[RandyB]

Originally Posted by SpecC

If 106FF works, you can skip SIP, but on most dark colors I've worked on, SIP was absolutely necessary even on new paint.

I found this to be true as well.

[kmac1980]

Originally Posted by WIKKDM3

I have an e92 jerez black and took delivery immediately when it came off the truck, with the plastic still on it. I always used the utmost care when washing it and still, because the clear coat is so soft, put very fine lines in the paint. I have quite a collection of products now, and used the following to remove the lines...

1. Chemical Guys CWG with a foam cannon and two bucket method with grit guards

2. CG clay bar and meg's final inspection as lube

3. Dry with mf waffle weave and The Absorber chamois

4. First pass polish with Menzerna Nano and White Lake Country Pad

5. Deeper lines/scratches were taken out with Menzerna SIP and green/white lc pads

6. Second pass polish with Menzerna Nano and black lc pad

7. Third polish with Menzerna Glaze and black lc pad

8. Meg's Final Inspection to remove any remaining polish residue

9. Two coats of CG Jetseal 109 with mf applicator

10. Two coats of CG 50/50 wax with small red lc pad done by hand

Jerez is a beautiful color but an absolute pain to take care of. The only bright side to my trials and tribulations is that I now know what works to restore the paint and what doesn't. I also used a very fine mist of water to dampen the pads lightly before applying the polish. This seemed to really help in my opinion. Hope this helps mate. PM me if you have any other questions or want pics.

Are you using a rotary polisher or random orbit?

[WIKKDM3]

On the areas needing the sip, I tend to use a direct drive polisher with a trigger on number 3-4. For the rest of the areas needing only Mernzerna Nano or Menzerna Gloss, I used a porter cable random orbital or my griot's random orbita. I will be purchasing a 4 inch pneumatic polisher for the hard to get at areas in the future.

[Apollo Auto Detailing]

WikkdM3 has it absolutely spot on.

This is the process used to restore the 2009 M3 in my previous post, and it is the ONLY process that I recommend.


In order to remove the factory/delivery/lot swirls, I used my Milwaukee direct drive and Lake Country 6.5" pads. Make sure you pick up the proper backing plate, with an angled edge. TAPE EVERYTHING OFF first.

Once the surface is clear, move back to your Porter Cable and graduate to the Nano when you can.

If the swirls are at a minimum, you might be able to skip the direct drive step, but it is up to you and your time schedule.

Direct drives can cause huge errors in the hands of low experience users. Beware.

Please remember to tape everything off first, before using one of these machines.
Tape $6
Repainting $thousands.

Not making mistakes? Priceless!

[ColoCane]

Originally Posted by WIKKDM3

I have an e92 jerez black and took delivery immediately when it came off the truck, with the plastic still on it. I always used the utmost care when washing it and still, because the clear coat is so soft, put very fine lines in the paint. I have quite a collection of products now, and used the following to remove the lines...

1. Chemical Guys CWG with a foam cannon and two bucket method with grit guards

2. CG clay bar and meg's final inspection as lube

3. Dry with mf waffle weave and The Absorber chamois

4. First pass polish with Menzerna Nano and White Lake Country Pad

5. Deeper lines/scratches were taken out with Menzerna SIP and green/white lc pads

6. Second pass polish with Menzerna Nano and black lc pad

7. Third polish with Menzerna Glaze and black lc pad

8. Meg's Final Inspection to remove any remaining polish residue

9. Two coats of CG Jetseal 109 with mf applicator

10. Two coats of CG 50/50 wax with small red lc pad done by hand

Jerez is a beautiful color but an absolute pain to take care of. The only bright side to my trials and tribulations is that I now know what works to restore the paint and what doesn't. I also used a very fine mist of water to dampen the pads lightly before applying the polish. This seemed to really help in my opinion. Hope this helps mate. PM me if you have any other questions or want pics.

How often do you do this?

[Apollo Auto Detailing]

The above process is used to bring a vehicle back to a state of Awe from defects in the paint.

It isn't something you can do in an afternoon, it takes more like 2 days on a Black BMW (from defects on most panels)

Should your car be closer to fine, use a new piece of clay then move to the Menzerna Nano. It should tell you pretty quickly how bad the swirls actually are.

If they vanish, keep going.
If not, PM me.

[ScheerSpeed]

A jerez black M3, when polished properly, is a beautiful color! i know because i have one!

[kmac1980]

Originally Posted by Apollo Auto Detailing

The above process is used to bring a vehicle back to a state of Awe from defects in the paint.

It isn't something you can do in an afternoon, it takes more like 2 days on a Black BMW (from defects on most panels)

Should your car be closer to fine, use a new piece of clay then move to the Menzerna Nano. It should tell you pretty quickly how bad the swirls actually are.

If they vanish, keep going.
If not, PM me.

Couldn't you use Nano and then do a glaze? Or will a glaze not do much to conceal on a black car? Just a thought, in the efforts to preserve the clearcoat thickness...

I've heard from some people that glazes make sealants less effective though because they dont allow proper bonding, is this true of all glaze/sealants combos?

[Apollo Auto Detailing]

The option of using Menzerna Nano first depends entirely on the buffer/pad system you are planning on using. After a clay procedure you will inevitably add fine scratches to the paint. Since these need to be removed, and depending on the cut of the clay, will show you the pad/polish to use. It is all subjective and at the same time dependent on experience.

My best guess on a clean paint surface is to use the Porter Cable random orbital set at 50% with a Green Lake Country polishing pad to see how it best removes swirls. If it doesn't "cut it" (pun intended), move up to the Green Cutting/Polishing pad with the Nano.
If THAT doesn't do it, it would be better to PM me with photos of a light reflection or direct sunlight reflection.

You might need to move up to Menzerna PO85U or even PO91E. It all depends on the buffer/pad/polish that you have on hand. Since speed also is a factor, maybe you just needed to give it more umph.. Random Orbitals tend to leave ghosting on the surface if used incorrectly (FYI) (Cyclo Dual Orbitals do not)

That is why I recommend using the Lake Country White or Gray pads depending on the color of the paint to finish the surface to a high degree of reflection. (and Nano).


Take photos, PM me and I offer my advice freely. (read: Opinion!)

As for glazes. At the moment I am not convinced on the need for a glaze IF you are prepping the paint to a fine degree of polish. Glazes tend to hide defects (their main purpose). Remove the defects and no glaze should be required. Traditional Carnuaba waxes are of such quality as to add incredible depth to any paint color, completely negating the need for a glaze. I prefer a sealant over a glaze.


So which is better? My opinion... A sealant and a high grade wax.
NEVER, EVER trust an auto dealership with a sealant BTW.

Glazes are good for a few hours at most, unprotected by a barrier of wax.

5 year Sealant Never Wax your car again? This is rant waiting to happen, eh?


The bottom line is to treat your paint surface well, polish it as needed and you should not have to concern yourself with removing too much clearcoat with a random orbital and Menzerna Nano or Micro Polish (PO87MC). At the most it would remove a small fraction of a micron each time, and you should have at the minimum of 55 microns of clearcoat on the shallowest of places. With Menzerna Micro Polish PO87MC and a random orbital used correctly this equates to +150 deep polishes.