Too much power for the M5?

[singularity]

My car has only 200 km in it, I'm taking a lot of care with the run-in period but the joy of driving overtakes sometimes. The problem is that every time I put down my foot to accelerate (slow or hard) DSC interferes. Turn off DSC and the wheels are spinning.

Seems like there's almost no difference in acceleration times in regular use with DSC ON/MDM/OFF because it's either too intrusive/less intrusive, but more wheel spin/too much wheel spin. DSC flashes even after 100 km/h when flooring the pedal on a damp road.

I haven't had a chance to warm up the tires or try on a dry road, but that's my experience from damn road driving. I hope this isn't an unfortunate limitation from an engineering perspective, but nothing else comes to mind other than getting more familiar with the car over time, but even that won't do much to solve the problem. There's too much power for the car and I wish there were aftermarket solutions to increase road grip and delivery of power to the road instead of excessive power output which isn't really needed as long as the first exists.

Would love to hear some insight and learn more about this

[Bimmercrazy]

Hi, where do you live / what's the weather / temperature?

I have had several test drives in London when it has been really cold, wet and raining but never experienced it to be as bad as you are describing...?

[///M5Canuck]

I think getting wider tyres would definitely help. There is so much torque in your machine, that there is not enough rubber to hold it in. I would talk to your dealership but I would think going to 305 on the rear and 265 on the front (up 10 on both front and back; do not do just one side as you will mess with the intended engineering of the car) would make a huge difference. PSS are very expensive though, so it would be worth a chat with the dealer to see if they will make the switch for you free of charge (since you did just lay down probably 80k on your gorgeous new F10 M5.)

I don't even know if this would solve anything, but talk to them; I would think it would help tremendously. (or maybe even getting a spare winter set and putting the PSS wheels back on when the weather turns better) Also, maybe wait for a dry day, wet roads with high performance summer tyres aren't going to help anything.

[clar]

Originally Posted by singularity

My car has only 200 km in it, I'm taking a lot of care with the run-in period but the joy of driving overtakes sometimes. The problem is that every time I put down my foot to accelerate (slow or hard) DSC interferes. Turn off DSC and the wheels are spinning.

Seems like there's almost no difference in acceleration times in regular use with DSC ON/MDM/OFF because it's either too intrusive/less intrusive, but more wheel spin/too much wheel spin. DSC flashes even after 100 km/h when flooring the pedal on a damp road.

I haven't had a chance to warm up the tires or try on a dry road, but that's my experience from damn road driving. I hope this isn't an unfortunate limitation from an engineering perspective, but nothing else comes to mind other than getting more familiar with the car over time, but even that won't do much to solve the problem. There's too much power for the car and I wish there were aftermarket solutions to increase road grip and delivery of power to the road instead of excessive power output which isn't really needed as long as the first exists.

Would love to hear some insight and learn more about this

On damp roads, that is to be expected. However, even on bone dry roads, you are not gonna be able to put all the power down. From my experience, if you go full throttle even without the kick down, you can get wheel spin around 5k rpm on first gear. 2nd gear is pretty much the same at higher than 5k rpm. I am seriously considering wider tires, but i don't think the stock wheels can take much wider rubber. After-market forged wheels might be the way to go. I just don't know how much wider i can go without rubbing. There isn't enough of the car to go around and after market wheels manufacturer aren't lining up replacement wheels just yet.

I am ordering a set of COR F1 Brava for my M3 and they are able to advise max offset for that aggressive look without rubbing, so i am waiting for them to tell me my options for the F10 M5. We are struggling to put power down and people are already going crazy over stage 1 tune here and there. These people are crazy!

[savarona]

I also experienced the DSC interferes so now and then at high spied....( nice isn't it? )
On dry roads I feel like I am in a Veyron. Never driven one but......
So I think its mostly because of the dampy roads. But in high speed corners the DCS always interferes. But I havn't the the skils to put it out...

[cidair]

xDrive.........

Never had a single wheelspin with my Hartge tuned 550ix ( 500hp/720Nm ).
Not even on wet roads.

[clar]

I think M has reached the end of the flag pole with the FR layout. They seriously have to look into AWD in the future.

[JOHNBMWM5]

Originally Posted by singularity

My car has only 200 km in it, I'm taking a lot of care with the run-in period but the joy of driving overtakes sometimes. The problem is that every time I put down my foot to accelerate (slow or hard) DSC interferes. Turn off DSC and the wheels are spinning.

Seems like there's almost no difference in acceleration times in regular use with DSC ON/MDM/OFF because it's either too intrusive/less intrusive, but more wheel spin/too much wheel spin. DSC flashes even after 100 km/h when flooring the pedal on a damp road.

I haven't had a chance to warm up the tires or try on a dry road, but that's my experience from damn road driving. I hope this isn't an unfortunate limitation from an engineering perspective, but nothing else comes to mind other than getting more familiar with the car over time, but even that won't do much to solve the problem. There's too much power for the car and I wish there were aftermarket solutions to increase road grip and delivery of power to the road instead of excessive power output which isn't really needed as long as the first exists.

Would love to hear some insight and learn more about this

I had the same, my test drive saw the rear wanting to "Step out" all the time, put me right off.

[Jon D]

Originally Posted by johnbmw6

I had the same, my test drive saw the rear wanting to "Step out" all the time, put me right off.

Same here - a lot of fun, but I wouldn't want that much power every day. My test drive revealed that it's beyond my limitations and it required too much concentration, which took the edge off it for me.
I'm probably showing my age, but I was glad to get back into my 535d - it has all the power and torque I need when I want to play, but it's supremely relaxing and easy to live with, especially on long drives.

[singularity]

It's in Lithuania amd temperature is around +1 C, damp from melting snow and sand/chemicals on roads. Thanks for recommendations, I might have to consider wider tires in future, Michelin PSS is what I have right now and it's essentially summer tires in winter. I'll also wait for some dry weather and above +5 C.

[clar]

Originally Posted by singularity

It's in Lithuania amd temperature is around +1 C, damp from melting snow and sand/chemicals on roads. Thanks for recommendations, I might have to consider wider tires in future, Michelin PSS is what I have right now and it's essentially summer tires in winter. I'll also wait for some dry weather and above +5 C.

Hey buddy, +5C is still too cold for summer tires i think. Please exercise some restraint until u see some solid sunshine. I don't want to be reading about another M5 crash...

[uhn2000]

Originally Posted by singularity

It's in Lithuania amd temperature is around +1 C, damp from melting snow and sand/chemicals on roads. Thanks for recommendations, I might have to consider wider tires in future, Michelin PSS is what I have right now and it's essentially summer tires in winter. I'll also wait for some dry weather and above +5 C.

Really doesn't make that much of a difference. When we were in Spain +25C the rear was kicking out (DSC intervening) constantly even on basic road driving. I do think there is way too much power/torque coming down on the rear but then again that is what makes it a hooligan's car

[AM47]

Originally Posted by clar

Hey buddy, +5C is still too cold for summer tires i think. Please exercise some restraint until u see some solid sunshine. I don't want to be reading about another M5 crash...

Just some more information for you the dealer in Canada told me summer performance tires only above + 7 celsius.

[singularity]

ok thanks for advises, I do drive with care because of cold temperature/snow/wet/sand/chemicals on the road making it too slippery for summer tires. I'll wait until +8C and try again, will write my experience.

By the way brakes work very well and are very stable in wet weather, I accelerated a little too much and found myself closing in to a car's rear at traffic light, brakes were very firm, stable without anti-lock engaging unnecessarily.

[clar]

Originally Posted by singularity

ok thanks for advises, I do drive with care because of cold temperature/snow/wet/sand/chemicals on the road making it too slippery for summer tires. I'll wait until +8C and try again, will write my experience.

By the way brakes work very well and are very stable in wet weather, I accelerated a little too much and found myself closing in to a car's rear at traffic light, brakes were very firm, stable without anti-lock engaging unnecessarily.

I seemed to be alone in not being happy with the brakes. I feel that it requires a much higher braking force to get the same deceleration i get from my M3. I am usually conservative with my braking and tend to brake early and gradually unless when going for a round of spirited driving. This is puzzling...

[sparkyg]

Summer tires are brutal below even 10 deg C

I would advise against even having them on the car right now to be honest. You really should throw a set of All Seasons at least on there and save the summer tires for April.

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by clar

I seemed to be alone in not being happy with the brakes. I feel that it requires a much higher braking force to get the same deceleration i get from my M3.

Prob more to with the weight of the car than the brakes.

I added Brembo GT brakes to my M3 and they were even better than stock M3 brakes.

Maybe a set of GT's will help.

Wait a bit and get 5000 km on the car and see what its like.

[clar]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

Prob more to with the weight of the car than the brakes.

I added Brembo GT brakes to my M3 and they were even better than stock M3 brakes.

Maybe a set of GT's will help.

Wait a bit and get 5000 km on the car and see what its like.

Either that or wait for the carbon ceramics.

[singularity]

Originally Posted by clar

I seemed to be alone in not being happy with the brakes. I feel that it requires a much higher braking force to get the same deceleration i get from my M3. I am usually conservative with my braking and tend to brake early and gradually unless when going for a round of spirited driving. This is puzzling...

The manual clearly asks to apply force frequently when braking and to use gradual slow braking too much. It says that brake pad wear must be in line with the usual usage of the car and not applying brakes with force might (especially after washing or in wet weather/winter) may result in stain remaining on the disks and subsequently cause continued uneven wear on future brake pads.

Yes I applied the brake forcefully and it stopped very well, road was wet. Situation was such that a regular car would've slipped (especially on my summer tires) and the other car with the force of acceleration that I had.

[///M5Canuck]

I wouldn't reccomend "all season" tyres at all. But if you go with something like the Michelin Alpin PA3 and have a dedicated winter wheel set, I think you would see a huge difference in the wet and colder weather. Pop those gorgeous 343M wheels with PSS back on in May and I think you would be very happy.

[sparkyg]

Originally Posted by ///M5Canuck

I wouldn't reccomend "all season" tyres at all. But if you go with something like the Michelin Alpin PA3 and have a dedicated winter wheel set, I think you would see a huge difference in the wet and colder weather. Pop those gorgeous 343M wheels with PSS back on in May and I think you would be very happy.

Yeah agree but I said "at least". Any winter be it in Europe or Vancouver should use Winter tires.

The better grip and optimized tire compounds will be far superior.

Whatever you choose, summer tires in anything cold is frightening.

If/when I get an M5 she'll be rolling on at least summer/winters. My M3 right now rolls 3 sets of tires to cover the April/may gravel season and then the summers come out in June and the fall I get the A/S back on.

[///M5Canuck]

Originally Posted by sparkyg

Yeah agree but I said "at least". Any winter be it in Europe or Vancouver should use Winter tires.

The better grip and optimized tire compounds will be far superior.

Whatever you choose, summer tires in anything cold is frightening.

If/when I get an M5 she'll be rolling on at least summer/winters. My M3 right now rolls 3 sets of tires to cover the April/may gravel season and then the summers come out in June and the fall I get the A/S back on.

I totally agree with the multiple sets, I think this will make a big difference.